Guys has any one any uniform , equipment etc details and pictures about these please. As I have commissioned an 28mm figure from Steve Barber models but am struggling to get information Thanks Peter
I have not run across much use of the few Prussian sappers and miners, probably only siege operations. Not long ago found Prussia didn't have a bridging provision and relied on the Russian Army. Sadly made figures for a Prussian Pioneers, some day should make a Russian and transfer the vehicles to them.
As I say Peter, they don’t appear to exist in Prussian infantry in quite the same way, or if they did no one seems to have made any fuss of it. The drill deployment diagrams don’t show a separate section, and I’ve found no evidence of uniform distinction. I suspect that all infantry units would have a number of tools such as picks shovels, axes, bill hooks etc but just issue them at need.
Ahh, perhaps I’ve misunderstood, because you asked for Infantry Sappers. I was looking for intrinsic support, similar to the French “Tête de Colonne” or British pioneer section. As I say, I don’t think they existed in quite that way in the Prussian infantry, but I would expect a unit to have a few tools to allow it to clear obstacles on the march etc.These are illustrating what in British parlance would be called Engineers or Sappers and Miners. Formed specialist units rather than being integrated into an Infantry formation.There is an Illustration of The Pioneers of Mansfeld on page 39 of “Editions de la Belle Alliance - Les Carnets de la Campagne No6 Plancenoit”. If you don’t have it may I direct message you?
Thanks so much David I received this from another contact what do you think ——————————— The engineers formed an independent corps (Ingenieur-Korps) and were commanded by General-Major von Scharnhorst (between 1813 and 1815 by General-Major von Rauch).The were three companies of pioneers for fortresses (Festungs-Pionier-Kompanien). In 1812 a fourth company was formed. In wartime from these companies were to be formed field companies. Each field company consisted of:. . . . . . . . . . 2 officers, 1 surgeon. . . . . . . . . . 1 sergeant-major. . . . . . . . . . 1 armourer. . . . . . . . . . 6 NCOs. . . . . . . . . . 12 privates first class. . . . . . . . . . 1 bugler. . . . . . . . . . 40 sappers and 20 miners.These men should be replaced in the fortress companies by recruits or reservists.By August 1813 there were 7 field and 6 fortress companies of pioneers.In early 1815 there were 9 field and 8 fortress companies of pioneers.The pioneers carried swords with a saw blade, only the sergent-major and ensign had ordinary sabers. Smoothbore carabines with bayonets, and small cartridge pouches for 15 cartridges. In addition they carried hatchets, pickaxes, axes, comapass saws and spades.NOTE: the regimental pioneers belonged to their respective (infantry) regiments and had nothing to do with the pioneers mentioned here.In October 1813 in the Elbe province from 800 miners was formed the Mansfelder Pionier Batallion (4 field companies). The companies acted independently and were assigned to different army corps. There were no senior engineer or pioneer officers at army headquarters, only one engineer, Kapitan Vigny, serving as a staff officer plus a small topographical section.All the engineer-officers (Ingenieur-Offiziere) were on the same rank list, but organised in 3 "brigades". These officers were attached either to the field or fortress pioneer companies.The Guard Pioneer Detachment (Garde-Pionier-Abtheilung) was formed in 1816, not before.
I know this makes me look like an Osprey fashion victim, but I reviewed Elite 182 “Prussian Napoleonic Tactics 1793-1815. None of the detailed diagrams (reconstruction or original) showed a pioneer or sapper section. Uniformkunde doesn’t show any specific sappers either.Obstacles had to be cleared, so personnel would have to be detailed. Undoubtedly tools would have to be carried. However, it seems that the individuals bore no distinctions and normally fell in the ranks, unless anyone has any specific data otherwise.The only pictorial evidence we have is the carriage of axes/hatchets.
Osprey’s MAA 496 “The Prussian Army of the Lower Rhine” has an illustration at E3 of a Landwehr Militiaman armed with an axe or hatchet. However, there is no sense of it being a representation of a sapper or pioneer.
I have not run across much use of the few Prussian sappers and miners, probably only siege operations. Not long ago found Prussia didn't have a bridging provision and relied on the Russian Army. Sadly made figures for a Prussian Pioneers, some day should make a Russian and transfer the vehicles to them.
No David so am I the actual regimental unit attached sappers but this is a much as I’ve received so far .
Ahh, perhaps I’ve misunderstood, because you asked for Infantry Sappers. I was looking for intrinsic support, similar to the French “Tête de Colonne” or British pioneer section. As I say, I don’t think they existed in quite that way in the Prussian infantry, but I would expect a unit to have a few tools to allow it to clear obstacles on the march etc. These are illustrating what in British parlance would be called Engineers or Sappers and Miners. Formed specialist units rather than being integrated into an Infantry formation. There is an Illustration of The Pioneers of Mansfeld on page 39 of “Editions de la Belle Alliance - Les Carnets de la Campagne No6 Plancenoit”. If you don’t have it may I direct message you?
Thanks so much David I received this from another contact what do you think ——————————— The engineers formed an independent corps (Ingenieur-Korps) and were commanded by General-Major von Scharnhorst (between 1813 and 1815 by General-Major von Rauch). The were three companies of pioneers for fortresses (Festungs-Pionier-Kompanien). In 1812 a fourth company was formed. In wartime from these companies were to be formed field companies. Each field company consisted of: . . . . . . . . . . 2 officers, 1 surgeon . . . . . . . . . . 1 sergeant-major . . . . . . . . . . 1 armourer . . . . . . . . . . 6 NCOs . . . . . . . . . . 12 privates first class . . . . . . . . . . 1 bugler . . . . . . . . . . 40 sappers and 20 miners. These men should be replaced in the fortress companies by recruits or reservists. By August 1813 there were 7 field and 6 fortress companies of pioneers. In early 1815 there were 9 field and 8 fortress companies of pioneers. The pioneers carried swords with a saw blade, only the sergent-major and ensign had ordinary sabers. Smoothbore carabines with bayonets, and small cartridge pouches for 15 cartridges. In addition they carried hatchets, pickaxes, axes, comapass saws and spades. NOTE: the regimental pioneers belonged to their respective (infantry) regiments and had nothing to do with the pioneers mentioned here. In October 1813 in the Elbe province from 800 miners was formed the Mansfelder Pionier Batallion (4 field companies). The companies acted independently and were assigned to different army corps. There were no senior engineer or pioneer officers at army headquarters, only one engineer, Kapitan Vigny, serving as a staff officer plus a small topographical section. All the engineer-officers (Ingenieur-Offiziere) were on the same rank list, but organised in 3 "brigades". These officers were attached either to the field or fortress pioneer companies. The Guard Pioneer Detachment (Garde-Pionier-Abtheilung) was formed in 1816, not before.
I know this makes me look like an Osprey fashion victim, but I reviewed Elite 182 “Prussian Napoleonic Tactics 1793-1815. None of the detailed diagrams (reconstruction or original) showed a pioneer or sapper section. Uniformkunde doesn’t show any specific sappers either. Obstacles had to be cleared, so personnel would have to be detailed. Undoubtedly tools would have to be carried. However, it seems that the individuals bore no distinctions and normally fell in the ranks, unless anyone has any specific data otherwise. The only pictorial evidence we have is the carriage of axes/hatchets.
Likewise, from MAA 152 plate C3 has an earlier infantryman equipped with an axe, but still no indication of being specialist.
Osprey’s MAA 496 “The Prussian Army of the Lower Rhine” has an illustration at E3 of a Landwehr Militiaman armed with an axe or hatchet. However, there is no sense of it being a representation of a sapper or pioneer.