Davout: The Iron Marshal

I don't know by whatever treaties Ney could save his life, he was a traitor and broke his oath to his sovereign, also boasting to bring back Boney in a iron change. As sympathetic as I am about Ney, a scapegoat in many aspects, I cannot see how he could have saved his skin, other the fleeing into exile. Davout was minister of war and had when the representatives of the chamber decided that Boney had to abdicate he had to tell him this, and enforce it. Carnot and Davout were ready to fight on, in case the government wanted to do so, but Fouché was essential to avoid this and Davout had to sign an armistice with Wellington and Blücher at the 3rd of July. then at the 7th of July he resigned his ministry and became commandant en chef of the Armée de la Loire.

I very much agree with Ney being guilty. I think nobody disagrees with that - which does not mean that his trial wasn't a sham. Afaik, Louis XVIII had released people from their oath of loyalty to him when he left France and thus visibly gave up the power, so people who only joined Napoleon later were usually left unharmed during the Second Restoration. But in Ney's case, nothing was to be done.

At some point Ney's lawyers however did try to invoke the Convention of Saint-Cloud, which I assume to be the same thing as the armistice you talked about in your reply. The Convention of Saint-Cloud settled the surrender of Paris and stated that nobody in town would have to fear consequences for his behaviour during the Hundred Days. And Ney was in town.

That's why Aglaé, Ney's wife, wrote letters to Wellington (and also to Liverpool, the Prince Regent and probably all other Brits whose names she happened to know), begging him to interfere in Ney's favour. After all, Wellington had signed that convention, and he was the commander of the occupation force in France. And at this point Wellington clearly stated that the convention only had been between the French army and the allied armies and did not concern the French king at all. (And everybody else replied in the same vibe. When you deduct the polite rhetoric and fake regret, the unanimous answer is: Just shut up and watch him die, okay?)

Hence my question, as in the podcast Davout was mentioned negotiating with the Bourbons, and trying to save Ney's life on that basis. Was this just an inaccuracy in the podcast, or was there really a second convention that did include the king?

Seems to be the place where Wellingtion signed the document, at least this is what my Dicitionnaire Napoléon says. Fouché did offer to Ney passeports to flee, but Ney did not accept this offer. There must have been a strong suspicion that Ney was on the hit list - the ultras wanted a victim.

but you will shoulder padding often - I simpley cannot see why Davout got the baton and not others like Dupont, Marmont, St. Cyr.

I guess many people were disappointed at that time. Not sure if it really makes much sense for me to speculate as I just know too little about the military careers of these men. But in the case of Gouvion Saint-Cyr, I'd assume he just was not deemed safe enough politically. From the little I know of him, he seems to have been a very independent thinker, and of a rather cold and aloof character. I could imagine Napoleon would not have trusted him much (or even less than he trusted anyone).

About Marmont I've read a bit, though mostly in relation to his rocky (and in part posthumous 😁) relationship with Eugène Beauharnais. Marmont was extremely ambitious, which says something among all these ambitious men. By 1804 he also had never held any independent command afaik (which of course is true for others, like Bessières, Soult, Davout). His personal life may have played a role, too. His wife had been suspected of having an affair with Napoleon, the two of them tended to have very public disputes, and they were both wasteful and loved to flaunt their wealth (that came from Marmont's father-in-law). In addition, Marmont was known to be a friend of Napoleon's. Given all this, a nomination may not have seemed particularly prudent.

About Dupont l'Étang I know next to nothing. From a look at his Wikipedia page I'd guess maybe he just did not have the military record? He, too, had never commanded independently, like Soult or Davout. But Soult and Davout, in addition to being utterly obedient, were hard workers and excelled at administrative tasks. Which seem to not have been Dupont's strongest point, guessing from his brief time as minister of war under the First Restauration (admittedly not an ideal moment to start a political career in any case). Then there apparently was some shady financial business in Italy, which in addition with the rest may already have sufficed to discard him?

About Dupont, indeed he had indipendent command, check about the battle of Pozzolo, one of the greatest victories of the French army. About shady financial buisness in Italy, worse than Boney? MacDonald, Berthier, Masséna - just to name some few.

https://ljallamion.fr/spip.php?article10182

Indeed what makes a marshal stand out amongst his peers, but those are more general question about the marshals alltogether and how they were chosen by Boney himself.

Listening to the Davout podcast it makes me wonder why Davout was chosen at all? Because he was a friend of Desaix? Because he married a sister of Leclerc? I did read Daniel Reichel on this and cannot see any stellar performance in the miliatary field for Davout compared people like St. Cyr, Richepanse, Lecourbe, Souham, to name a few to be of the original chosen.

What was the fall out of Davout and Moreau in 1797 - already the Klinglin papers? All is quite vage, Davout asks for his demission that he cannot serve under a comander as Moreau and then - gets on board of the Egyptian campaign.

Davout is known as stern disciplinarian - was this due to the influence of Férino.

While Davout fought without any doubt good tactcial fights on an operational restricted leven, such as Auerstedt and at Wagram, as well as his timely appearances at Austerlitz and Eylau, what caused the fall out of Davout and Boney in 1812?

Though Davout is famous for his defence of Hamburg, why isn't it mentioned that he fails operationaly for the thrust to Berlin - to planned link up with the Armée de Berlin.

Why as an almost Pavlonian reflex Davout is almost always named as Boney's best Marshal ? What makes him that better than Soult, Masséna, Suchet, Marmont?

No, I don't subscribe that he was blisteringly brilliant, but very solid and certainly amongst to top ranking marshals - but then, what do we know about the other Marshals? Slogans that the Grande Armée was at its best in 1805 - or Davout's corps was the best organised in the Grande Armée are dished out and regurgitated in sort of a Pavlov reflex, in case one studies a bit closer, consulting other then sources written in English, the picture gets a bit different.

I always wondered why Davout got the baton - I am re reading the suiss author Daniel Reichel : Davout et l'art de la guerre - but even in this detailed study about his military performance I cannot find any reason why he got it - compared for example to Marmont, or Dupont.

While in typical fashion Auerstedt is hailed at the greatest performance of a corps in the Napoleonic wars, other actions, even more impressive in my view - Dupont (granted only a division) against the brake out attempt of the Austrians at Ulm - Haslach / Jungingen is ignored, just only because Dupont fell in disgrace.

Why Davout is always hailed as the best Marshal - ignoring Massena, Marmont, Soult, Suchet and Eugene (granted no marshal) is difficult - at least for me - to accept.

Actually, I was asking about your assessment of the podcast itself--not Davout--that was characterized as "blisteringly brilliant." I thought it was pedestrian, boring, and simplistic. And I do agree that Davout is often overrated for many of the reasons you pointed out. Some folks just can't see past Auerstedt...

See my first statement - in case you take it as a primer, fine, in case you take it as a serious discussion about Davout - not that well. It has at least induced me to re read Reichel and Vachée about Davout, what was interesting among else, he served under Ferino for a while.